In the course of the concerts associated with these recordings (made in the mid to late 1990s), Helmut Rilling presented, in German, a series of lectures analyzing the cantatas. Haenssler recorded these lectures, complete with musical examples, and included them in the CD set. Rilling has been using this device to enhance listeners' understanding of Bach's music for many years; in this interview, Dr. Bomba probes the lectures' origins and intent. This translation is reprinted for WKSU listeners by kind permission of the publisher.

Dr. Bomba: I have a phonograph record from the year 1974 with a "concert lecture" on Bach’s cantata number 110 "Unser Mund sei voll Lachens." What term captures this way of conveying music better – "concert lecture" or "lecture concert"?

Rilling: You’re right, the terminology is not very precise, because it can’t be. Neither "lecture concert" nor "concert lecture" precisely describes what actually takes place. The idea is to explain music not merely theoretically, but also with the aid of acoustic examples. These examples are not played from a recording, as is usual at lectures serving to introduce concerts, but are played by the ensemble itself. Furthermore, it is possible to illustrate what is being said using examples consisting of individual voices or excerpts from the score, which cannot otherwise be heard in this form. Then, when the composition is played as a whole later, the audience recognizes these examples in it.

Dr. Bomba: You are standing on stage, with the audience in front of you and the ensemble at your back. To whom are you actually talking?

Rilling: Actually I am talking to the composer. I would like to ask him many questions, since I have studied his work in great detail. For instance, I might want to ask, "Why did you do this? What did you have in mind when constructing the architecture of this piece? Why did you come up with just this particular theme, why did you use and combine these particular motifs and themes?" Of course, I always have the words being put to music in the back of my mind, as well! I would like to include the audience of the lecture concert in my question-and-answer period with the composer, since I believe that getting a glimpse of a composer at work is not only interesting for musicians. It may sound a bit bold, but I believe I can guess at the composer’s answers. I find these answers by studying the score in such detail. Of course, these are always subjective answers, and for just that reason I would like the audience to understand them.

Dr. Bomba: How do you prepare for a lecture concert? After all, it has to be kept interesting while not exceeding a certain time period, and you also have to consider the entire work.

Rilling: My preparations are based, of course, on a detailed knowledge of the score. I analyze it through and through, from start to finish. Then I can base my plans on this analysis. On the one hand, there is something essential to say about every movement, you can discuss its structure, its scoring, its character. On the other hand, though, I also have to keep an eye out for what is special, so that I can delve into those spots where the composer leaves behind the well-trodden paths of the "normal" to create something special. Often these special features are what give the score its quality, what the music is all about. And this is what I would like the audience to understand.

Dr. Bomba: Do you give thought to the level of knowledge the audience you are talking to may already have?

Rilling: Yes, it is very important to take that into consideration. I would certainly speak differently to an audience of Bach lovers in Stuttgart, who have so many years of experience that they could almost be considered specialists in their own right, than I would to a Bach Academy in Caracas. However, there are a few basic principles I try to follow. For instance, I always try to avoid or at least paraphrase any technical terms which may not be familiar to people who are not professional musicians. Hence I would not speak of sixteenth note passages, but instead of rapid passages, and I would tend explain a dominant seventh chord in terms of its harmonic tendency, should I be forced to mention it at all. I always try to find an idiom that the audience can relate with and which it can use to form its own ideas.

Dr. Bomba: What is it like when you try to give a deeper appreciation of Bach’s music to an audience that is not conversant with the German language? Do you first have to "translate" the words?

Rilling: Yes, of course! Without understanding the words you cannot understand the meaning of the music they’re set to. It has often proven to be of immense value to furnish a non-Germanspeaking audience at a lecture concert with the words and a translation.

Dr. Bomba: And what is it like for you to present Bach’s music to a foreign culture, such as in Japan or at the Bach Academy in Athens, where such terms as "Protestant" or "church music" are either unknown or have an entirely different meaning?

Rilling: Of course I have to provide a bit more background information when I hold lecture concerts in foreign countries, such as explaining what a Protestant church service in Leipzig was like in Bach’s day, what place the cantata held in this kind of service, and what Bach’s cantatas are trying to say about specific themes that come up in the course of the church year. So I have to put a lot of things into their proper context – as I often enough have to do, by the way, for our own audiences here in Germany, as well, because a great deal of knowledge has been lost through the centuries.

Dr. Bomba: Why does music actually need to be presented and explained in this way (and not just that of Johann Sebastian Bach)?

Rilling: I remember an interview I had with an Austrian journalist in Vienna some years back on the topic of "lecture concerts." She thought lecture concerts were on the whole a good idea, "But Professor," she said to me, "the music loses all its charm!" I think you have to take this kind of argument seriously. What gets lost in the attempt to explain music is the purely emotional relationship to the experience of listening to music, that is to say, just what many people are expecting when they go to a concert. On the other hand, we human beings not only have feelings, but also approach art by way of our reasoning faculty and want to know something about a work of art. And I think that this also applies to concerts in particular. Combining both emotional and intellectual appreciation is the best way to give more depth to the experience of listening to music, to prompt listeners to come up with new ideas and perhaps even new feelings.

Dr. Bomba: All over the world, lecture concerts are a hallmark of Helmuth Rilling and the International Bach Academy – why do you think people like to listen to you so much? Is it because you offer them a "different" way of enjoying a concert, a certain kind of emotional thrill when the examples are explained or the "aha" experience from recognizing them?

Rilling: I think there are a lot of people who would like to learn more about the music they love so much and that means so much to them. They feel enriched and can discover, to put it pointedly, just why they love this music so much.

Dr. Bomba: When did you actually first decide to hold "lecture concerts"? Was it something specific, a particular event or model?

Rilling: Actually, there was no model for the lecture concerts. I just started doing them some time when I was Cantor at the Gedächtniskirche in Stuttgart. That was where I first discovered that there were people in the parish who not only wanted simply to listen to the music, but also to learn more about it. Of course, I could have achieved the same result with a series of evening lectures and good program notes, but the first lecture concerts I held back then let people experience music more straightforwardly through a direct confrontation between the ensemble and the listeners. This was something new, and this spark of being right there, in a dynamic presentation directly related to the situation, caught on and spread to other places, including large concert halls. It even worked on radio and television or, to refer back to your example of a while ago, on records and now on CDs. In this way, a special relationship develops between the musicians and the listeners or, if you prefer, a communion of learners, since we are all concerned with the same thing, our love of music and how it can enrich our lives.

Dr. Bomba: When you cultivate this form for many years, does it sometimes happen that you find yourself presenting some works more than once? In that case, do you fall back on what you’ve already done or do you think up a new approach? Or do you make new discoveries again and again?

Rilling: I must admit that I first go to my library to see if I’ve already done a presentation of the work in question. However, only in rare cases do I have any written manuscripts for these lecture concerts. What I always have, though, and of course what I need for my work with the ensemble, is the so-called demonstration slip where I note down the bar numbers of the examples and which parts of the ensemble played them. If I am lucky, I find a slip of this kind from an earlier occasion. Then I can take the score in hand and go through the concert as I did it back then. If I come up with new insights, I will change or dispense with the earlier version, but usually I can build upon what I noticed before.

Dr. Bomba: Are there any particular situations from your lecture concerts that come to mind? Particularly pleasant or even particularly awkward situations?

Rilling: What I always find particularly pleasing is the expectant, open-minded attitude of the listeners. However, the sequence of the examples always poses a danger. As I said, the ensemble has the examples noted down on their sheet music and is expecting to play them in the order we planned. Of course, I will already have given detailed consideration to what I want to say, but I like to speak extempore, without a manuscript, since then I can have a much more direct contact with the audience. My greatest worry is therefore that I might forget one of the examples we planned. Here is where the ensemble has saved me from embarrassment more than once by noticing that what I am explaining cannot possible apply to the upcoming example and simply leaving it out.

Dr. Bomba: Do you sometimes hear concerts or recordings by fellow musicians that make you think, "If only they had been at my lecture concert and come to know the piece properly?"

Rilling: No, I don’t really think anything of the sort. I am sure that all my fellow musicians act responsibly, give thorough consideration to the works they perform and have good reasons for their particular interpretations. Of course, there are various approaches and they must needs be subjective. It would be very tedious if we all did the same thing!

Dr. Bomba: Do you have to be characterized by "missionary zeal" or at least a "pedagogical" streak to hold this kind of "lecture concert"? What is your motivation? Performing or listening to music is enjoyable by itself, isn’t it?

Rilling: I would repudiate the idea of using these lecture concerts in the manner of a missionary to convey articles of the Christian faith. However, it cannot be denied that sacred music bears the stamp of its words. When a composer chooses to make these words his own, differentiates them and asks you to consider what they mean, then I will certainly include this in my explanation. Lecture concerts give you a wonderful chance to verbalize your own ideas on music and to let other people see your thought processes. Certainly, "merely" performing music is wonderful by itself, but the music takes on more meaning when you have given thought to it. By the way, before a concert where I only have to conduct I am always tense, excited. Before a lecture concert, I am always nervous.